Hunger for Potential: Unlocking Cannabis’ Full Potential with Joshua David Rubin

Welcome to the latest episode of Roots to Risk, where we delve into the unexplored horizons and transformative possibilities in the dynamic realm of cannabis. Eric and Isaac bring together business acumen, scientific research, and market demand in another captivating discussion.

In this episode, we welcome Joshua David Rubin, the CEO of Day Three Labs, a cannabinoid CPG ingredient manufacturer focused on researching, developing, and bringing to market innovative cannabis product solutions.

Joshua David Rubin takes us on his journey, recounting his personal exploration of the cannabis industry and his realization of its untapped potential resembling that of a promising startup. He shares his pivotal discovery of groundbreaking cannabis research in Israel, a country at the forefront of pharmaceutical advancements, leading him to establish Day Three Labs as a conduit bridging the research and innovation between Israel and the United States.

Throughout the conversation, Eric, Isaac, and Joshua David Rubin passionately explore the convergence of research, innovation, and the realities of the cannabis market. Together, they illuminate the path to unlocking the boundless potential of cannabis through a research-driven approach, pushing the boundaries of what is possible in the industry.

Tune in to Roots to Risk as we traverse the exciting landscape where expertise meets innovation, and witness firsthand how research-driven breakthroughs can revolutionize the cannabis industry.

Transcript:

00:01. Eric:

This is The Roots to Risk Podcast hosted by Eric Schneider, alongside Isaac Bach. Roots To Risk brings you insights, the latest stories, and long form discussions about the cannabis industry. You’ll hear interviews with industry leaders and their perspective on current and future trends, how they’ve built success and what challenges they have faced. Our goal is to facilitate candid conversations and provide informative content for the cannabis community at large. Let’s go.

00:29. Eric:

How are we feeling today, Isaac? What’s going on, man? Great to

00:31. Isaac:

See you. Not too much. Good to see you, too. Uh, looking forward to another, you know, great recording of the R to R podcast.

00:39. Eric:

Absolutely. We’ve got an interesting, interesting guest on deck, uh, Josh Rubin, uh, founder of Day three Labs taking a, a very unique approach, um, to the cannabis space. Much more pharmaceutical based, uh, which, which is gonna be really interesting and excited for this conversation. Just a little bit more information on Day Three Labs before we bring Josh in. But Day Three Labs is a cannabinoid CPG ingredient manufacturer specializing in the research, development and commercialization of novel cannabis product solutions.

01:14. Eric:

Um, it’s an international company with headquarters in Denver and pharmaceutical research lab in Israel. Day three Labs reimagines existing cannabis offerings with pharmaceutical grade technology and innovation, and offers consulting services to help brands and manufacturers bring better, cleaner, more precise and predictable products to market. Um, I think that this is gonna be a really interesting one and, and really I think something that is, you know, gonna revolutionize the space, right?

01:44. Eric:

We always talk about, you know, how can we properly dose and essentially duplicate an experience, right? Um, and, and understand exactly what we’re intaking from a product standpoint. I think Josh could be able to provide more insight into what they’re building at Day Three Labs and, um, what the future holds for, for what they’re doing.

02:07. Isaac:

No, absolutely. I’m, uh, I’m looking forward to hearing, you know, what Josh has to say about their processes and how they’re going about it, um, because I do think a lot of what they’re working on is gonna kind of revolutionize and streamline, uh, some of the products across the industry. So looking forward to hearing from him.

02:24. Eric:

Absolutely. Let’s bring ’em in.

02:26. Joshua David Rubin:

Hey guys.

02:27. Eric:

Hey Josh David Rubin. How are we doing today? What’s going on? Thanks for joining us.

02:30. Isaac:

What’s

02:31. Joshua David Rubin:

Up? Y It’s good to be here. It’s good to be here. It’s good to see you guys. How you doing?

02:36. Eric:

Good. Good. It’s been a while. Have you, have you gone to any conferences this year or what’s on the docket for for day three?

02:43. Joshua David Rubin:

Uh, so, uh, we were at the, uh, Emerald Conference in San Diego. Uh, it’s that, uh, that science Focus conference. Uh, our chief Innovation officer actually presented on a panel. Uh, our head of manufacturing, uh, presented, uh, a poster, I think is what they called it. Um, it was, it was definitely an interesting conference, sort of seeing, you know, what’s coming down the pipeline in, in, in the science arena, in, in cannabis. Um, I did not go to Benzinga. You guys went to Benzinga, I think in Miami.

03:09. Isaac:

We were down there, yeah.

03:12. Eric:

Hurricane. Hurricane, yeah.

03:14. Joshua David Rubin:

I saw Miami was, was just underwater for a week.

03:18. Eric:

I know. Fort

03:19. Isaac:

Lauderdale airport was crushed.

03:22. Joshua David Rubin:

I heard, I heard, I heard, I heard. It was like two feet on the water.

03:25. Eric:

Yeah, we, uh, we had an event at the, the Soho house, which was, it was, it was really fun getting everybody together. And, and it’s right next to the fountain blue, and we were supposed to have that on the roof, but I think majority of the party would’ve blown away. So I’m glad. Would’ve been tough to light a joint too. It was like 40 mile an hour wind. So I dunno if that made any sense.

03:44. Joshua David Rubin:

Big concern in this, in this space. Uh, but how, how, how, how was the event? I’ve been to your events. Your events are great. Uh, how was the event at Benzinga?

03:54. Eric:

It was awesome. Um, you know, we were lucky. There was, there’s great attendings. I think, you know, Benzinga, it was interesting. I was talking to the team there too, and they said within the last like two to three weeks, they almost doubled participation. So, um, it was, it was tremendous turnout. I think that they do a good job. They benzing the team in that event. Um, you know, Isaac and I have been to more events than, than we would be proud of. And I think they, uh, they’re definitely one of the more premier in, in what they do and, and the crowd that they attract.

04:27. Eric:

So it was, uh, it was really beneficial, honestly.

04:30. Joshua David Rubin:

That’s great. That’s great. Uh, I think my next conference is, uh, uh, cannabis salute in, uh, in Cancun. Uh, I believe I not

04:39. Isaac:

Bad place

04:40.Joshua David Rubin:

<laugh>. It’s not bad, not bad place. Have you been? I’ve never been,

04:45. Isaac:

I’ve never been to Cancun either.

04:48. Joshua David Rubin:

Well, maybe that conference.

04:51. Eric:

Yeah, we do have, we do have some. It’s, it’s tough cuz what we do, we have limit, unfortunately. We have like limitations where we can place business, um, which is tough. And a challenge. Like, I know you guys like, and, and would love to learn more about what you’re doing at day three, but I know you have operations in Israel and the US and we’d love to just learn a little bit more about, you know, what the current status is of day three labs and you know, what you may excited about over the next 12 months.

05:20. Josh David Rubin:

Yeah. So let’s, let’s dive right into it. I I, I do think that your next podcast you should be drinking. Um, it would definitely, I dunno, soften soften the environment a little bit. Uh, but, uh, you know, for all you know, I have, I have a little bit in my mug here. Um, but, you know, whatever, um,

05:38. Eric:

I got so in here, you just can’t see it.

05:40. Josh David Rubin:

<laugh> Eric,

05:41. Isaac:

I definitely needs it with the voice going right now. He needs some, uh, some soothing whiskey or something to get that fixed.

05:47. Josh:

<laugh>. Yeah. You, you sound like the announcer for, uh, movie previews. That’s what your, your voice sounds like. <laugh>.

05:52. Eric:

Yeah.

05:53. Josh:

Or, or the old movie phone. Remember, movie phone. You have to call movie phone or does that age me a little bit too much?

05:57. Eric:

No, I remember moving fun.

05:58. Isaac:

No, I remember moving fun.

06:00. Eric:

Yep.

06:01. Isaac:

We talked about this off screen. You know, the, the not being able to grow facial hair does make me look a little bit younger than I am. So <laugh>,

06:08. Josh David Rubin:

How, how old are you? Are we allowed to ask? Is that a, is that a legal question?

06:12. Isaac:

I’m 30 <laugh>.

06:16. Eric:

I’m 31. I’m the old guy.

06:18. Josh David Rubin:

You’re the Yeah, the old man. The old man. The old man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m not gonna even ask you to guess my age. Um, I feel like I’ve been like a solid 70, 75 years old my entire life. Like just

06:29. Eric:

Solid.

06:33. Josh:

I’ve always been this age.

06:35. Eric:

We were talking about how you had sideburns in, in high school and

06:38. Eric:

Different. That was off, that was off the record.

06:42. Eric:

I was,

06:44. Eric:

You guys

06:44. Joshua David Rubin:

In high school was like, you know, experimenting. Like one day I’d have like mud chops one day. Uh, a mustache. I goatee.

06:50. Isaac:

No, I tried to, I tried to do the just for men on my, uh, pathetic attempt, like a mustache. And I ended up dying in my face for like, a few days. So that I, I ended up stopped doing that yet.

07:00. Eric:

<laugh> It’s all coming out

07:06. Josh:

Guys. It’s all coming out. We’re we’re leaving it all on the field.

07:09. Eric:

Absolutely. This, this is an open forum.

07:12. Josh:

Yeah. So should we, should we talk about cannabis or, uh, more about facial hair? Uh,

07:16. Eric:

No, uh, let’s, let’s dive into the cannabis portion cause

07:20. Eric:

We can come

07:20. Eric:

Back. Especially what you guys are doing cuz it’s, it’s, uh, it’s definitely a little unique and exciting and I think it’s, uh, just different from what we’ve, you know, overall had. And I think that’s like, honestly the goal of what we’re trying to do is get a variety of different types of operators, uh, investors and, and providing their perspective on, you know, their current operations and where they’re seeing the industry and just trying to get as many experts to, to weigh in, honestly.

07:47. Josh:

Well, uh, I I, I will do my best. I, I, you know, no promises what you’re gonna get outta me, but I will do my best. You have my, you have you have that. That’s

07:57. Eric:

All we gonna

07:57. Josh:

Ask. Yeah. So, alright. So for, for, for me, in terms of my cannabis journey, it all started, um, and we were just discussing this offline. Uh, so I was at, uh, business school at, at Johns Hopkins. Eric’s, uh, alma mater. Uh, so apparently we’re in the same alumni group. I’ll be looking for you at the, at the alumni. I

08:13. Eric:

Do, ironically. I actually had no idea. I’m wearing a Hopkins <laugh>.

08:17. Isaac:

There’s no shot. You guys know you were wearing your Hopkins shirt right now after being down there for

08:21. Eric:

No, I knew I was wearing my Hopkins shirt. I didn’t know he was a Hopkins grass.

08:25. Josh:

I, I, I, this is my Hopkins mug for, for, for, for the record. There we go. Yeah, there we go. Um, so, uh, around 2016, uh, I was getting my MBA at, at Hopkins. Um, you know, I I I like to describe it as, uh, you know, a cold, rainy Baltimore day. Self-loathing was strong. You know, I was, I was trying to, you know, take deep to try to understand what I was gonna be doing with my life. And, you know, one, one of those, you know, existential, you know, crises. But, uh, in reality, from what I remember, it was a beautiful day. Everything was fine, <laugh> like, there, there’s nothing bad going on. Uh, but I was sitting on my computer and, uh, on my newsfeed, something popped up about cannabis, uh, coming to Maryland.

09:00. Josh:

So this is when cannabis was just coming online in Maryland.

09:02. Josh:

I didn’t know anything about the cannabis industry, like literally nothing. Uh, but definitely piqued my interest. I mean, I was looking at, you know, various, uh, industries to go into after, uh, after business school, uh, from, uh, finance to healthcare, uh, nothing, nothing really excited me, uh, uh, real estate. Um, and then cannabis. So I, I I, it piqued my interest. Uh, I, I decided, uh, to go to a, uh, local state hearing, uh, where they were discussing sort of like the regulatory landscape of cannabis in Maryland. Uh, and when I showed up, I looked around and it was just, I mean, every sector of the industry was representative.

09:39. Josh:

I’m sure there were, there were insurance folks there, there were ag tech, agriculture, uh, waste disposal, accountants, lawyers, uh, everyone was there. And ev there, there, there was like a, a palpable excitement in the room.

09:49. Josh:

Like everyone was just very, very excited for this emerging industry. Uh, and that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s when I decided, all right, this is, this is something I want to get involved with. Like, it’s basically like, if you’re excited about startups, well, this is, this is a startup industry, uh, with all the, you know, good, bad and ugly that comes with that. Uh, it’s, it’s a startup industry. Um, and so I started digging in, uh, put on my, my MBA hat and started making calls and, and networking a lot. Uh, I did some, some pro bono consulting for a market research firm, really just to gain a better understanding of, of, of, uh, of, of the industry.

10:23. Josh:

Uh, and what I saw was the, you know, and it’s, it’s true in many ways, even today, uh, the industry was explosive. I mean, this was back in 20 16, 20 17, you know, it was just, and it still is in many ways, just very explosive.

10:35. Josh:

Uh, it’s, it’s, you know, the, the, the, the, the growth potential of this industry is just, you know, it seems, you know, just endless. Um, but I also saw that there was like no innovation. Like, there was just a real, you know, and also like a lack of appetite. Even like, I would talk to players in the industry, you know, when I was networking, and I’d be like, what does the future of innovation look like in cannabis? And they’d be like, Josh, we’re, we’re selling weed <laugh>. Like, it sort of sells itself. Like people just enjoy it, you know? And I was like, but like, what about like, you know, what are we doing with it?

11:07. Josh:

Like, is there anything, you know? Um, and so, uh, um, at the same time, uh, I, uh, learned that, uh, Israel conversely, uh, has been leading the world in pharmaceutical research of cannabis, uh, for over 50 years now.

11:23. Josh:

Uh, and, uh, and, and really just, you know, I mean, every uh, uh, clinical institution, university, uh, has, you know, some dedicated division to, uh, uh, studying, uh, cannabis, the Israeli government is, is, is behind it. The Ministry of Health is, is behind it. Uh, there’s a lot of Israeli government funding behind it. Uh, and they’re doing proper clinical work into cannabis. Uh, but there’s no market. It’s like the exact opposite of, of the United States. First, all the whole country is the size of New Jersey. It’s, it’s, it’s not, you know, it’s a tiny little country, but there’s no market.

11:55. Josh:

Like, they’re not selling anything, but they’re doing all of this research. And so that’s when I sort of had this kernel of an idea, which, which led to day three labs of, is there a way of bridging what’s going on in Israel with all of this r and d and innovation with, uh, the, the, you know, the, the vastness, the, the explosive nature of, of the US industry.

12:15. Isaac:

Was there like one piece of research that was coming out? Is there out the time that really kinda sparked the idea? Or was it just kind of the overall, um, you know, group of, you know, projects that they were working on that kind of caught your attention?

12:29. Josh:

Yeah, I mean, you know, uh, well, it, it, as soon as I learned that THC was first isolated and identified in a, in a research lab at Hebrew University, you know, decades ago, um, and that’s where it all started. I mean, uh, professor Maul who recently, uh, passed away, um, you know, he, he was the first who really, you know, spoke to, you know, well, maybe there’s more to this. Um, but you know, for me, uh, uh, um, you know, I, when, when I was, uh, a teenager, uh, you know, as, as with most people from, I guess our, our age range or my age range, uh, I don’t wanna put you guys in, in my group.

13:07. Josh:

Those of us that were carrying around a Sony Walkman in high school, let, let’s, let’s put it that way, <laugh>, um, our first exposure to cannabis was, you know, strictly recreational, if you could call that, you know, like, it was just, you know, it was, it was, it was during, you know, prohibition.

13:19. Josh:

It was just a different, you know, understanding of cannabis. And I remember when I was a kid, I was at a, a friend’s house, and his dad, uh, is, is a big doctor, uh, well-respected doctor. And he was on a call with a patient, and he was saying he’s very conservative guy. Like, he was not, he was not pro cannabis. Like, he wasn’t, he wasn’t like smoking weed with his kid and with us. Like he, you know, he, he would’ve, you know, we would’ve heard a thing or two from him if he caught us, you know, with what we were doing. Um, but I heard him on a call where he was telling a patient, um, the only thing that’s going to provide you with any kind of relief with what you’re dealing with is cannabis.

13:53. Josh:

Uh, and he, he instructed, uh, his patient to, to talk to their children about getting, uh, cannabis from the, from, from the legacy market, from the, from, from the black market.

14:03. Josh:

And that was the first time I ever heard that there’s more to this, that there’s, you know, there’s something in this plant, uh, that we’re, that we don’t quite understand. And then, so what I was seeing in Israel, to answer your question, um, was, was a, was a real, um, uh, um, uh, uh, uh, uh, a, a real hunger, uh, for, for discovery. I mean, every scientist that I was meeting in Israel over the last several years, um, especially back in 20 16, 20 17, like I met very, uh, established and accomplished, uh, pharmaceutical researchers that pivoted into cannabis after decades in other fields.

14:36. Josh:

And I’d say, why did you come into cannabis? And they were like, this is like the great unknown. Like this is like, as a scientist, like this is like, there’s so much here. And that’s, that’s really what what, you know, brought my attention, uh, to, to what was going on in Israel. But again, like I saw, there was no pathway to, you know, how do we get this into consumer’s hands? Like, it, it doesn’t help anyone. If, you know, if the iPhone was designed in a lab, you know, somewhere in isolated, I dunno, Indonesia, and no one ever heard about it, it would do nothing for us. Like, you know, it doesn’t change anything. Uh, you need a pathway to commercialization. And so that’s, that’s really how Day three labs started.

15:11. Eric:

And, and how are you taking that research from Israel and, and from, uh, various groups of scientists and like implementing that into the US market and injecting that knowledge into the us.

15:24. Josh:

So, you know, uh, the, the, the journey has been interesting, to say the least over the last, uh, you know, several years or so. Um, so I, I synced up with my now business partner, my co-founder, uh, Raffi Cohen. Uh, so he’s based in Israel. He’s been in the cannabis industry there for, you know, almost a decade now. Um, and so, uh, you know, uh, the, the industry there, you know, it’s, it’s very insular, you know, it’s, it’s all, you know, r and d based, uh, so, you know, like typical r and d space, it’s very insular. Everyone’s in their silos.

15:54. Josh:

And Raffi, you know, was already established there. And, you know, he was in, he was in the inner circles, and he knew everyone there. And I was here, I am here. And so together we formed this bridge. And so about a year and a half ago, day three labs acquired an Israeli pharmaceutical company, uh, for their technology.

16:10. Joshua David Rubin::

And so, um, essentially, I mean, what we’re doing now is we’re changing the game in cannabis. Like, and, and that’s not hyperbole, that’s not an exaggeration. Like we are, we are literally changing the game in, in several ways. And so the, the, uh, our, our flagship technology, um, is called Unlocked. And that was the main reason why we acquired this particular company. Um, although they have a portfolio of ip, which I’m happy to talk about. Um, so this flagship technology, so unlocked, uh, is, is, is completely disrupting the edible space.

16:42. Joshua David Rubin::

I mean, it, it just, it changes the game in terms of how we understand edibles, how we approach edibles, I mean, everything. Uh, and, and, and, and I’m definitely happy to, to go more into it, but, um, you know, uh, essentially if, if, you know, when, when ju juxtaposition of, of, of, of us and, and Israel, so here, um, our focus, you know, in, in the adult use market mainly, uh, um, in the edible space, uh, when you’re looking at, you know, any kind of innovation or what have you, you know, the biggest thing that come on the scene has been nano emulsion.

17:12. Joshua David Rubin::

Uh, so anyone in this space has heard of nano emulsion. I’m not gonna go too much into how it works. I think at this point, everyone is pretty much up to speed there. Um, but the idea behind it, uh, like the whole motivation behind n emulsion was how do we get cannabis edibles, ingestible products to hit the consumer faster and harder, right? Like, that was, that’s been the conversation over years. So, you know, uh, take a standard edible, it’s very unpredictable. It could hit you in an hour to three hours. Um, it’s, it’s typically very heavy, like, almost like a sedative. Um, you know, it’s very different than smoking cannabis.

17:44. Joshua David Rubin::

Uh, I think everyone would agree in cannabis that it’s very, very different. Um, and, and, uh, and, and, and, you know, for most people, their first time taking an edible, you know, they’ll, they’ll, they’ll pop that gummy, uh, wait an hour, nothing happens.

17:56. Josh:

They’ll pop another one, pop another one, and then they faceplant into the couch. And they never touch cannabis ever again, right? Like, we all, we all have that friend who’s done that. Um, or maybe you’ve done that, um, and maybe you enjoy it. I don’t know. There’s no touch here. This is a safe space. Um, but, uh, but it, it’s, it’s, it’s a very, very heavy, uh, and, and, uh, you know, um, uh, uh, it’s a very different experience than, than when, when smoking. And so nano emulsions came outta the scene several years ago, cuz you know, if you were looking at it as, you know, well, how do we make this faster so that you’re not waiting in an hour to three hours, and, you know, how do we make it hit you a little harder? Uh, because the, the bioavailability is very low.

18:27. Joshua David Rubin::

And so there’s this idea like, well, let’s, you know, let’s, let’s get you, you know, a, a a harder hitting, uh, um, uh, edible, more pure edible, what have you. Um, so that’s how nano emulsions came under the scene. Unlocked, uh, completely different, right? So we’re, we’re talking about pharmaceutical. So it was designed, uh, it took about six or seven years in a pharmaceutical setting in Israel, in a pharmaceutical lab with a team of pharmaceutical researchers doing proper pharma trials, like through and through, um, trying to understand.

18:58. Joshua David Rubin::

So from a pharmaceutical perspective, uh, the biggest challenge with cannabis is that your liver does a really good job at metabolizing cannabis. Uh, and so imagine in layman’s terms, and I’m not a scientist, I, I, I play one sometimes on Zoom, but I’m, I have a team of scientists they can dig into, like the actual, you know, getting get into the weeds as, as it were.

19:19. Joshua David Rubin::

Um, but, uh, but the layman’s understanding as, as I understand it, is imagine, you know, you take an Advil for a headache, uh, and then your liver metabolizes it into Xanax. Uh, you might feel really nice, but you’re gonna have a fucking headache, right? Like, it, it doesn’t achieve what you, what it is that you need that, that Advil to do. And so cannabis is very similar, and in the sense of you, you take that edible, you’re not getting what you want to be getting, like whatever’s in, like the cannabinoids that are in there, the Delta nine tc, it’s metabolized, and Delta nine THC turns into 11 hydroxy. Uh, and, and, and the cannabinoids are metabolized.

19:51. Joshua David Rubin::

And so this technology was designed to protect the, that input to protect the, the cannabis profile. And that’s what, that’s what this technology achieves. And it’s all natural.

20:01. Joshua David Rubin::

It’s all, it’s fully safe. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s data driven. Uh, it actually works. And so what this technology achieves, I mean, we, you know, the, the potential is just unbelievable. Because if, if you think about it as, as an operating system, right? So on an operating system, you could design applications once you have the operating system, right? Like the operating system is just there as a platform. And so unlocked is a platform. So you could, uh, you know, if you’re looking for a, a, a specific experience from a strain, uh, or actually formulate a specific cannabinoid formulation to, to create a targeted experience, we now for the first time, have the ability to deliver that targeted experience to, to the consumer or the patient.

20:44. Joshua David Rubin::

And so, you know, essentially the way that we look at it is no one’s really had an edible before until now. Like they, you’ve never really had cannabis in an edible form until now.

20:54. Eric:

That’s awesome. And yeah, that’s, and, and, and right now, I guess what’s the stage are, is that technology currently in any edibles to date? Is there like still, you know, ongoing studies that need to be done? Like for, because I think a big part of changing that perception, right, is education, right? And, and saying, okay, this is how edibles were done previously, and then this is the next wave, the next generation.

21:26. Eric:

So part of it is that education piece, I guess how much of what you’re doing now is like implementation versus continuing to do research and education.

21:38. Joshua David Rubin:

So, uh, it’s a great question, uh, Eric, um, and I’ll tell you, you know, I think the, the, the biggest challenge, uh, from, you know, from our perspective coming into the market now, uh, with this type of innovation, you know, I think, you know, everyone loves talking about innovation. Like, everyone, everyone loves talking about disruption. It’s like very exciting. You know, it’s a buzzword. You know, everyone, everyone loves disruption. Everyone loves innovation. But the reality is that that’s actually not true, right? <laugh> in, in reality, you know, uh, I, I, I often think about, uh, Uber, you know, when Uber came on the scene, uh, it was a struggle.

22:11. Joshua David Rubin:

Like, that was, that was a battle, right? I mean, they had, you know, uh, uh, they, they were disrupting in the sense of disruption means that you’re, you’re altering the, you’re changing the status quo.

22:22. Josh:

So, uh, until Uber, we were standing outside in the rain, hailing a cap, and there was a whole industry of taxi cabs and a whole way of doing things. And suddenly a new technology comes on board. And fast forward to today, could you even imagine standing outside in the rain, hailing a cap? Like I just, I, I physically can’t even imagine it. Like, it’s like so foreign to me. Uh, but that, that didn’t happen overnight. And I think that’s what we’re seeing right now with, with this type of technology, is that there’s been, you know, tried and true methods of delivering cannabis through, through edibles, through digestible products. Uh, M c t oils, the standard.

22:54. Joshua David Rubin:

Uh, you know, that’s how, you know, people in, you know, college dorms have been doing it for decades. Uh, nano emulsion came on the scene, you know, uh, four or five years ago now.

23:03. vUm, and, and, you know, that’s been, you know, sort of like the way of doing things. Um, and so now we’re coming on the scene, and this is actually disruptive in the sense of it’s, it’s efficacious. It does what we say it does. Uh, and it’s, it’s safe. Uh, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s literally just protein and cannabis. Like, there’s nothing else in there. And so in terms of where we are, we’re in market, I’m wearing an oleo sweatshirt, which you can’t really see. Uh, so our first, uh, mover in the market is a brand called Oleo. They’re a premium rosin company. Uh, we are very excited to partner with them because they, they’re, they’re, you know, not only a, a very well respected brand here in Colorado.

23:38. Josh:

Um, but they’re, they’re very focused on quality, uh, and solventless rosin, like really premium rosin. Uh, and again, like our whole technology allows us to take that rosin and protect whatever, whatever cannabinoids and terpenes are in there, and deliver that, that experience.

23:53. Josh:

Um, we’re also in California, um, through the people’s ecosystem. Uh, I’m a big fan of Christine Delarosa. Uh, she’s a force in this industry. Um, she’s one of our partners out in California. Um, and, uh, we are coming to market, uh, in a few months with another, uh, big, big brand in, uh, in California. Um, and what, what is public, uh, is that we, uh, uh, have signed on with 1906, which we’re very excited about. I think that 1906 has very cool, really changed the game in a lot of ways in this industry, really started that conversation of functional edibles, which is, you know, really, you know, that’s the direction of this industry at this point.

24:29. Josh:

And we’re very excited to, uh, to be working with a brand that, you know, is, is focused on, on, on that aspect. Um, and, and, and helping to change the conversation.

24:37. Josh:

I think that’s a, it’s a great, it’s a great partnership. Um, but we’re, we, we, we are continuing our, our r and d I mean, we, so we have a full r and d lab in Israel. So when I say pharma, I mean proper pharma. So we’re, we’re leading a, a major clinical trial into Parkinson’s disease. Um, so the way that we look at it is, you know, we’re, we’re sort of in this interesting position where for decades we’ve heard anecdotal data from all of these patients from all over the world now saying, I use cannabis for X, or cannabis helps relieve y symptoms, or whatever it is.

25:11. Josh:

So 60% of Parkinson’s patients claim that cannabis helps them, uh, with, with their, with their symptoms. But why, like, what is in this plant of the 150 or so cannabinoids in the plant, and every combination of cannabinoids, it, it creates a different experience in the body.

25:25. Josh:

That’s a trillion combinations. Like, we don’t know anything <laugh> about canna, like what it could really do. Uh, and so, uh, we’re, uh, through an Israeli, uh, back, so it’s, it’s an Israeli funded, uh, research program. Uh, we’re looking into designing, uh, treatment for Parkinson’s. We started that trial already, and it’s going very well. Uh, and, uh, uh, one of the reasons why we’re able to do that is because whatever we design in terms of that cannabinoid formulation, we could then unlock it, you know, put it into our technology and deliver it as it should be delivered to the, to the consumer.

25:59. Josh:

Um, we also have a, uh, uh, a patented, uh, uh, um, sleep formulation that, that, uh, that is below the, the hemp TC threshold. Um, and so it, you know, it, it, it just uses minors, so there’s no, you know, additives or, or anything in there like no melatonin or valerian root or any of that stuff.

26:18. Josh:

Um, and it’s data backed. I mean, it’s, it’s pharmaceutical. Um, it was designed for pharma, uh, and it actually works. Uh, I mean, you get very high sleep. Uh, I’m a bit of an insomniac. I’ve taken it, it’s, uh, I mean, in our data it’s stronger and more effective than diazepam. Like, it’s, you know, so like what we’re really looking at here to sort of, you know, try to wrap that up a little bit. Um, you know, we, we we’re sort of looking at it as there’s, there’s, there’s so much that we don’t know, which means that there’s so much potential for innovation, uh, in cannabis.

26:50. Josh:

Like, there’s just so much. And we’re on a, we’re we’re, we’re, we’re, we’re on a mission here we’re dedicated to, to, to really, you know, trying to understand, uh, the full potential of what cannabis could do.

27:05. Eric:

Are there any other skews that you’re working on right now? Like, aside from just edibles?

27:11. Josh:

Uh, no. I mean, uh, unlocked, uh, is, is, is is primarily for, for edibles, it’s an edibles technology. No. Um, uh, and so, you know, I I, I, I think, you know, one of the, one of the draws to, to the edible space for me, uh, you know, when I’m looking around, you know, yes, there are lots of consumers in the industry that enjoy, you know, uh, consuming cannabis through, through ingestion, through edibles, uh, especially gummies, um, and beverage, you know, is a whole other discussion of like, what that’s gonna look like. Um, but when you’re looking at that novel consumer, right?

27:43. Josh:

Like as the industry is expanding and we’re going into new markets, and we’re, you know, first we, we capture, you know, all those that were consuming cannabis before the regulated markets. But now we have to expand and capture everyone else. You know, like we we’re trying to make this as mainstream as as possible.

27:59. Josh:

You know, we, for those of us in the industry, we believe everyone can benefit from cannabis, whether it’s recreational wellness, and you know, from our perspective, pharmaceutical. Um, but the novel consumer doesn’t wanna smoke, right? Like, smoking is now, smoking is bad, right? Like, uh, like, you know, smoking is gross. You know, cigarettes went out. Now joints are out. Uh, for the novel consumer at least, uh, you know, it’s, it’s not as attractive. Um, we, uh, um, but when they ingest cannabis as, as we’ve touched on, I mean, you know, you’re rolling the dice, right?

28:29. Josh:

Because it’s, it’s unpredictable. It’s not precise. Uh, you know, so for that novel consumer segment, you know, as we’re trying to expand this market, uh, you know, we wanna make sure that they actually enjoy <laugh> the experience, uh, so that they keep coming back, uh, and that we continue to grow this industry. And so that’s really one of the main reasons why we’re focused on the, on the edible space. So

28:51. Isaac:

I guess the, the one question I have, is there anything that unlocks really can’t properly deliver? Like, are there any combinations of cannabinoids or terpenes that like, don’t have the same bioavailability or it is not as effective, or it’s just like it’s hitting regardless of what the makeup is of the, uh, combination you’re trying to use?

29:10. Josh:

Yeah. So, so again, so the, the tech was designed, so, you know, again, like in the US we were looking at faster and harder with n emulsion in, in this Israeli lab, they were looking at, well, we have cancer patients and we have epilepsy patients, right? And we have autistic patients who, who are consuming cannabis now for pharmaceutical reasons, because it, it benefits them. You know, it treats or, or addresses some indication, uh, to some degree, uh, but they can’t ingest it and get the same effect. And so the whole idea was, well, how do we get that cancer patient a pill that they could take that would have the same, uh, effect on their body as smoking?

29:48. Joshua David Rubin:

Um, uh, so, uh, uh, so across the board, we have yet to see a cannabinoid that that doesn’t work, uh, that doesn’t unlock, uh, and we’ve already worked on various combinations.

29:58. Joshua David Rubin:

Um, uh, and so you get that very pure clean form of cannabis, uh, which then creates that very pure and clean, uh, high in the end, um, with terpenes. Uh, terpenes are very delicate and very low. Bioavailability. Terpenes are incredibly delicate. I mean, most people don’t even understand how delicate they are. I, I didn’t understand it, I got into this, but like, you lie to join, most of them are gone. I mean, like, they’re so delicate. Uh, but we found, even with unlocked, we’re able to protect most of them, okay. Uh, that we end up getting most of them captured into, uh, in, in, into the, the, the, the protein, which is how we protect it.

30:34. Eric:

Very cool. And I guess my, um, one question I had was like, when you look at implementation with a, with a partner, like people’s ecosystem or olio, are, is it very much like plug and play in terms of technology? Or does your team have to go on site and, and really provide that expertise and know how, how to utilize the technology?

30:58. Joshua David Rubin:

Uh, yeah. I mean, so, uh, you know, when, when we, when, when we talk about this technology being a sophisticated pharmaceutical technology, it, it really is a sophisticated pharmaceutical technology. And so, you know, again, you know, uh, people were very used to their blackberries with their keyboards. And when the iPhone came out, everyone’s like, well, where’s the keyboard? You know, like, they were just so used to things being a certain way. Uh, and so with n emulsions, it, it, you know, pretty much across the board, it’s, it’s pretty play and play, right? Like, I mean, it’s, you’re essentially, you know, taking some chemicals and surfactants and, and whatnot and putting them into what is essentially a blender, uh, and mixing it all up.

31:34. Josh:

Um, that’s not how our tech works. Our tech is not an emulsion. Uh, and it’s a pharmaceutical tech. So the equipment that we use, uh, it’s actually the same equipment that’s used to make vaccines, uh, because it’s, again, it’s all pharmaceutical.

31:47. Josh:

Uh, it’s not a very big footprint. It’s very, and it’s highly scalable, but it’s pharmaceutical technology. Um, and so in order to make this as, as plug and play as we can and, and as turnkey as we can for our customers, um, we, uh, we, we have a number of options. So with Lio, uh, we have, uh, a dedicated machine in their facility, uh, and we operate that machine. And essentially they, you know, they hand us the rosin, we process it, uh, and then we hand it back to them. Uh, and it’s, you know, very easily integrated into, i i, into, into gummies and, and other form factors.

32:21. Josh:

In California, we have an operation set up at Fire Labs. Um, uh, they’re a, a a, a premium extract, uh, facility in Southern California, in, in, uh, in Santa Ana. Um, and so we essentially have scaled equipment, scaled manufacturing in their facility, and we take their input.

32:40. Josh:

And then anyone in California, we could, we could provide, uh, the, the material to, uh, cuz we’re, we’re in market. Um, but essentially, you know, it, it’s case by case. You know, we’re, we’re talking to, to, to, um, uh, prospective clients. Uh, some of them it’s, you know, we’ll, we could show up and pump out, you know, several kilo, uh, and then leave essentially, you know, like they could store it in their inventory. Uh, or if it’s, uh, an ongoing operation, we could set up an operation. Uh, or, uh, there’s certain markets that we’re looking into expanding into and, and having a, a dedicated uh, uh, footprint.

33:13. Eric:

Got it. And at the end of the day, day three labs is not a, a licensed cannabis operator, correct? Correct.

33:19. Josh:

Correct. Right. We’re not, we’re not, we’re not plan touching. We’re, we’re a technology company, we’re a biotech company. Uh, yeah, a hundred percent.

33:27. Eric:

Yeah. Just wanted to make that make that clear, cuz Yeah. And

33:30. Josh:

We’re also, we’re also not a brand, uh, I mean, it’s, it’s a branded ingredient, like it’s an Intel inside model, uh, where, you know, you we’re, we’re providing an ingredient that’s then put into someone else’s, uh, edibles. Uh, but we’re not gonna be, you know, manufacturing our own line of gummies or anything like that.

33:47. Eric:

That makes sense. No, that’s, it’s super unique where you guys are building in and how you found that technology and, and rolling it out in the us. Um, I’m excited to see more and more brands start to, to pick that up. And, you know, obviously as you mentioned, it’s still early stages, but in this industry, things are, are moving very quickly and, uh, I’m sure we’ll see it here on the east coast.

34:11. Josh:

Yeah. Uh, we will be at the East Coast very soon, um, in two markets, uh, which you’ll find out about soon. Uh, but I, you know, I, I’m excited to, to be opening up this industry to, you know, again, like a whole new segment of consumers changing the way that we even approach edibles, how we understand edible edibles, you know, I’ve given this, you know, these gummies out to like friends at dinner, and they would look at me and be like, I’m not taking a gummy at seven o’clock. Like, I’m just gonna fall asleep at the table. Like, I’m not, like that’s, you know, but it’s, it, it, it’s, it’s a, it’s an extremely functional and enjoyable experience because you’re not, you know, you’re not getting that typical edibles high.

34:43. Josh:

Like it’s, it’s just very, you know, it hits you fast, you know, 10 to 50 minutes on average, but then the actual experience is different and it could be curated.

34:51. Josh:

Um, but also, you know, and we haven’t really touched on it, but, uh, you know, I, I have a lot of concerns and we have a lot of concerns about nano emulsion, uh, not only whether or not it’s effective, uh, but the safety around nano emulsions. And I’m, I’m hoping that one of the things that, that we’re doing here at Day Three Labs is we’re elevating the conversation and, and we’re, we’re, we’re facilitating this discussion of what is actually in this product? Like what am I, what am I consuming? Like what chemicals are in here? What surfactants are in here? You know, this, this whole conversation about particle size. Well, I mean, what does that do?

35:21. Josh:

These tiny little particles that they’re using in emulsions, what does that do to your liver, your kidneys? Like where, where does it go in your body? I mean, these are all, these are all conversations that have not been had yet in this industry.

35:31. Josh:

Um, I mean, most nano emulsion products, these fast acting products, they don’t even list ingredients on the back of the, on the back of the label. Uh, and so, you know, I, I’m fairly familiar with nano emulsion at this point, uh, just being in this space, but most aren’t, uh, on, you know, you know, most are somewhat familiar in terms of how it works, but, you know, uh, I’m, I’m hoping because our technology is a, it’s a pharmaceutical technology. It’s, it’s fully safe and, and, and, and a hundred percent effective. You know, it does what we say it does, and it’s, it’s an all natural product of just protein and, and cannabis. Like, there’s nothing, there’s nothing in here that could be, that could be harmful.

36:04. Josh:

Uh, whereas a lot of these nano emulsions are using, you know, essentially the same ingredients that are, that are using lipstick, uh, but they’re putting it into, uh, into gummies. Um, and so I’m hoping that you know, this, you know, it’s one of the challenges of, uh, you know, very fast paced emerging market like cannabis is we’re sort of trying to, you know, very quickly solve these problems. Uh, I’m hoping that this, you know, um, this helps the industry, you know, uh, um, start asking these questions and having that conversation.

36:33. Isaac:

No, definitely. And I think, you know, kind of to your point too, with the, uh, you know, the casual consumer, safety’s definitely a concern for a lot of people in this industry in general. So it’s not only the, uh, I’m having edible and be out cold for about eight hours, but it’s also like, what am I actually putting in my bogging? Is it, you know, gonna,

36:50. Josh:

Yeah, what am Yeah. And, and why am I using this edible? You know, like, I mean, you know, uh, again, like, you know, with this technology now, you can actually have like a, a targeted, you know, curated experience. You know, it’s, it’s more functional. So like you could pop, you know, a, a gummy with a strain that’s very uplifting and I dunno, go for a hike or, uh, you know, uh, uh, go grocery shopping. I, I, I dunno. Um, but like we could actually, you know, curate that experience and, and, and, and, and, and make cannabis, you know, um, you know, uh, uh, more widely used.

37:23. Eric:

Absolutely. And, uh, and Josh, just, this has been an awesome conversation and, and really appreciate the insight. Just to, uh, to wrap things up, I’m gonna hand it off to Isaac, just a few fun, uh, yeah, fun personal questions quickly, and then we will, uh, we’ll wrap things up here. Yeah.

37:39. Isaac:

Well, we, this

37:39. Josh:

Is, this is where we need, this

37:41. Eric:

Is,

37:41. Isaac:

This is definitely where the come

37:43. Eric:

Out.

37:43. Isaac:

Yeah. I mean, we, we already got pretty personal with the facial hair conversation, but, uh, you know, starting off <laugh>, what would, uh, what would your walkout song be if you were a, a baseball player, a flagger, what would the, uh, walkout song be?

37:59. Josh:

What would my walkout song be? Uh, what

38:02. Eric:

Song to get you, get you jacked up for the day, get you excited for the day?

38:08. Josh:

Um, that one song to get me jacked up for the day. Uh, let’s see here. Um, I feel like I have to like, go back to, uh, to My Roots. I was really into grunge, uh, when, when I, when I was a kid. Uh, so something nirvana, maybe even Teen Spirit.

38:25. Eric:

That’s a great one. That’s

38:26. Isaac:

A good one. I like that. Um, that’s a

38:29. Eric:

Great one. I mean, if that doesn’t get you excited, that

38:31. Josh:

Doesn’t get,

38:37. Isaac:

Um, cool. How about, uh, what’s a, what’s a book that you’ve, you know, taking a lot of, uh, lessons from or would recommend people look into?

38:48. Josh:

Um, so there’s a book recently that I read. I don’t know if I even have it here. Um, I, I, I think it was called Range. Um, it was about, uh, like a, like a non-linear career trajectory and, and how that’s, you know, used to be viewed as a, you know, like you should just stay focused and have one career and, you know, do that for your entire life. And this sort of argues the opposite, that a non-linear, uh, career trajectory actually might, might give you, you know, a little bit more, um, uh, more of an edge or more, uh, or sharpen your skills in a different way. Um, so I, I I, I would definitely recommend that.

39:22. Josh:

Um, uh, what was the other one? Uh, come back to me on that one. There’s another one that I had in mind, but Cool. I’ll stick with that for now.

39:30. Isaac:

No, I like the, I like the, the book you mentioned, cuz I think that is something that a lot of people do get stuck in the same industry or same job function and never kind of fully develop skills that could be useful down the line. Um, or,

39:42. Josh:

Or they’re <inaudible>, you know, like they, they feel like, well, I’ve been hopping around a lot and I don’t really know what I can do at this point. And, you know, this sort of argues like, well actually there’s a lot that you could do. Like this might actually be a, an asset.

39:53. Isaac:

Right. Um, cool. And then last one, what’s, uh, what’s your favorite restaurant?

40:00. Josh:

My favorite restaurant? Like anywhere like in the world,

40:03. Isaac:

Anywhere and Best Restaurant you’ve ever been to, I guess is a better way of phrasing it.

40:08. Josh:

The best restaurant I’ve ever been to. Um, that’s a really tough question. And it’s between two and they’re both in Israel. Um, love that one is called, yeah, one is called Falafel Gabi or Falafel Gabi. Um, it’s Intel IV on, uh, bug Chv for any who’s in Tel Aviv anytime soon. Um, they make the best SBI I’ve ever had. I dunno if you’ve ever had Aviv before, but it’s, it’s like Israeli street food. It’s, it’s my favorite. Um, uh, and then also, I mean, uh, uh, uh, uh, Abu Adam, uh, is is my favorite spot for humus in Israel.

40:46. Josh:

Uh, it’s like, it’s so good. Like, you’re like licking the plate afterwards. Like it’s, it’s like, it’s like, it’s ridiculous. Like, so I dunno, maybe, maybe next time we could all, we could all hang out there, uh, for the, for the

40:56. Isaac:

Next podcast. I’ll be down. Should we do a Roots Risk podcast in Tel Aviv on the beach? I, I’m definitely, I’m okay with that one. <laugh>,

41:04. Josh:

I’ll be there in a couple weeks. You guys are welcome to join me.

41:06. Eric:

It’s funny, your, your ums are starting to turn into ems

41:10. Isaac:

<laugh>.

41:12. Eric:

Yeah. Only people who know Israelis would, would understand that. Yeah, no, I, that’s how, that’s how Isaac and I actually met. We met through, we went on birthright together, Israel

41:22. Isaac:

Lacrosse,

41:24. Eric:

Israel lacrosse Austin, and, uh, that’s where the, the synthesis of, of roots to risk and, and Alpha really started. Um, um, it’s probably over a few bold s best decision you ever made Isaac. Right. Try to help me get a job. Best decision you ever made.

41:41. Josh:

I mean, you know, it, it makes sense to me. I mean, you know, I I lived in Israel for many years, uh, for about five years, and I, I go back and forth all the time and, you know, something that, you know, I picked up from living there, you know, they, they call Israel the, the startup nation, right? Like, it’s like the one of like, some people call it the startup capital of the world. Like there are all these star, it’s a, it’s a startup culture. Uh, and, and a lot of that like rubbed off on me. I’m I’m, I’m sure rubbed off on you when you were there, like this idea of like, you know, let’s, let’s create something. Let’s build something, let’s change the way that things are done.

42:09. Eric:

Yeah. I remember there was the innovation center right in the heart of Tel Aviv where they, where they highlighted like, all of these outstanding technologies that, you know, you, you didn’t even know came from Israel. Honestly. It was, it was pretty wild to, to see all that. Absolutely. Well, uh, well, Josh, well really appreciate your time, man. And, and this has been really insightful and I think a very cool part of the industry that people always don’t, don’t think about, but is really gonna be the future, right? Like we talked about. And, um, you know, not using the buzzword, buzzword of innovation, but how you guys are leveraging that to enhance the product development and cannabis is, uh, is really cool.

42:48. Eric:

And, and really appreciate you taking the time today.

42:51. Josh:

I, I, I appreciate you guys inviting me on, uh, anytime. Just gimme a call. Love to hang out.